Hello everyone and welcome to the Moodle Podcast.

This episode is all about shaping tomorrow. So I'm interested. And don't everybody talk at once. But what's something that a, uh, small thing that you learned recently that made you look and think about life a little differently?

I have been reading a few interesting articles about how we've got a pushback against the pushback on things to do with diversity, inclusion, the kind of things that we perhaps see that many of us have been working and thinking. This is great. This is great for business, this is great for learning, this is great for organizations.

This is great for us, and it's going to lead to growth and prosperity and all this kind of thing. Then there was the pushback, and now I'm starting to see the green shoots, shall we say, of people saying, actually, you know, this isn't quite what we want.

And in some ways, what I felt when I was reading some of this, you know, we want this back, and it, and I kind of feel, actually, it might be coming back. This is a positive thing, which is, you know, quite unusual sometimes for me, a positive thing that people are saying, actually, we're not going to go back to the kind of inauthentic statements about, you know, what we want of equity and access and things.

Actually, we want a bit more substance behind it. We want that this time round. So that's what I've learned just in the last, um, week, actually.

That's encouraging, frankly, you know, because so often, a lot of our kind of like, DEI stuff felt hollow. So a new, um, expanded scope that's really authentic and meaningful. Sounds refreshing. Refreshing.

Well, mine's so different that I think I should go next because it's really basic. But, um, we just moved into a new house and we have a new big garden to look after. And neither my husband or I have green thumbs, so we brought in a gardener to come and tell us, you know, what we should do, how to look after the garden.

And he was telling us about all the new plants, all the plants that we have and what they are and how they need to be looked after and what makes them grow and what makes them not grow. And in that, uh, one and a half hour, I learned so much about something that you walk past every day, right?

Lawns and bushes and flowers. And I just had no idea about any of it. And now I'm just super fascinated with all of it. And I can't wait to get out in the garden on the weekend, try some of the little tricks that he taught us. So it might sound like a very trite little detail, but I do think that nature is part of what makes life lovable.

And having this new understanding about it has just kind of put a little pep in my step. Now I'm looking forward to the weekend in a different way. In past years, the weekend was the time to recover, but now I can't wait to get outside in the garden and see what I can do up there.

That's exciting.

I think mine's even smaller than that. Every time I interact with Moodle, I learn something new about it, particularly Moodle as a platform. I just learned this week that Moodle has an automatic feature that when you post something in the form, if you have the setting turned on, it will identify specific words in the glossary and create a link to them so that if there are people who don't know what you're talking about, they can automatically go and do that.

So that's pretty cool. It means I can start unleashing my vocabulary into my Moodle posts now.

I love that feature in Moodle. It's one of my absolute favourites. We're a global organisation, and I try all the time to speak in English that can be understood by colleagues who don't, um, speak English as their first language. But I am a sucker for slang. I love a good turn of phrase, I love some slang, and I struggle with it.

So we've been working on building a slang glossary so that we can still, um, have this flavour. So that's exciting to hear. Scott. Okay, let's go around real quick. Lightning round Icebreaker question. If you could master one skill that would help shape the future, what would it be? If you could master one skill quickly, like, um, overnight.

I would learn to play the guitar because I love music and think music brings people together. I can sort of plunk around and strum around on it, but to be able to play really well as a means of engaging with other people would definitely change my future and those around me.

Well, mine's, um, mine's very work-related. Right now I'm playing with all sorts of tools that are AI tools that help you do rapid prototyping and development, um, in software, and there are a lot of them. Uh, they all do slightly different things. So one of the things I'd like to learn really quickly is which one's going to stick so I can learn the one that's going to be here, here and not waste my time learning all the other ones.

But I'm also realizing how hard it is to learn something brand new, like the tooling that is coming out with AI. I feel fairly comfortable with it, but I'm still challenged by it every day, and I don't have enough time to do it as much as I wish I could.

So if I could just turn a switch on in my head and just know how to do all that stuff right now, I'd really appreciate it. Can you make that happen for me, Shalimar?

I'll look into it for sure.

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Great question. I'm actually going to go to my research and, um, produce something which is less nerdy. So one of the things I found in my research is that we can really adapt well to the things that are happening and do changes if we spend time on our, uh, analytical thinking and analytical skills.

And it came up very strongly. And I think that is really good. But what I also think when I apply it to me, I can be overanalytical at times. I can end up overthinking. And if I could do something, I could switch that off. And I think perhaps the gardening, perhaps the guitar, perhaps other things might be the thing that enabled me to think, yes, that's.

That's good. And I can stop overthinking and move on to the next thing.

Love that. Love those responses. That's some great stuff. I'd like to phase now into some more serious questions. It's serious question time, folks. Um, it's good now. Yeah, he should be. It's going to be a bloodbath out here. Dr. Pasha. Can I call you Nima?

Yes, please. Yeah.

Okay. Your work often focuses on making the future of work more inclusive and human. So what role do you think learning plays in actually shaping that future rather than just reacting to it?

Learning and not being reactive is one of the critical things I think moving forward and learning means. If we're not reactive, we have to take a proactive approach. And that's essentially what learning should give our minds: the ability to think ahead and be proactive, critical in our understanding.

And I think with the adoption of various forms of technology, but also the other changes that are coming into the workplace, which is what, uh, as you say, Researching into, I think the kind of proactive ability, our foresight, which is going to be so important and critical within that, if I can emphasize it, is our own confidence, our own ability to feel confident, to predict, to say, no, this is right.

I think this. So I think one of the core things that we'll need to focus on in our learning is our own, is building our own confidence.

That's great.

Yeah.

I can certainly think of all the times that a lack of. I know it's hard to believe if you know me, but a lack of confidence has really hindered my ability to engage fully with, you know, forward thinking or development because I'm so stuck in insecurity or whatever.

So, uh, all the data suggests is, you know, that's how we are.

Yeah, okay. Without giving away too much about your upcoming keynote, can you share a question or challenge that you'll be posing to the audience?

What I'm going to talk about is a slight kind of insight into the human AI symbiosis that we're going into or creating, that we are ourselves here. You know, as we just heard Mary talk about the different tools and how we can work on them.

Maybe Scott, you're going to have a fantastic AI that's going to teach you guitar and all these kinds of things that you're going to have is that ah, that we're working on, it's more integrated. I'm, um, not a person who says we should not have AI. We should integrate it and use it as a fantastic tool.

One of the things I'll be looking at is what does this human AI symbiosis mean? Well, how will it impact us, and what's the impact on our human side in terms of things like our emotional intelligence? So what does AI plus EI mean?

Scott, I'm going to change my focus to you. Are you ready?

I'm ready.

What's the biggest mindset shift you hope to see in how we think about education at a global level?

I think much of the world is still thinking about education from a far too huge utilitarian point of view. That it is something that was set up as a means of creating components of an industrial system. And as a result we set people off on the very beginning of their education journey with this endpoint in mind.

That's all about productivity and some kind of industrial machine. And I think that strips both the curiosity and the creativity out of education. Um, I can see that especially at the higher education level. Um, as you get students that come out of secondary, they are entering the world as young adults, there's all this enthusiasm around what their futures have.

And you now realize that we're in a period of time that is the worst employment, uh, market for new graduates that we've had in years and years and years. And I'm watching the enthusiasm just be stripped away, because all of that focus was. Was on what that industrialized outcome was, rather than on the discovery and the exploration and the creativity and the innovation that actually comes with deep, um, critical learning.

So I hope that's the shift that takes place.

So I'm hearing that you no longer care about my output and productivity levels, and I can just be creative and fun all the time.

Uh, no. I need both from you. Shalimar.

Okay, almost had them.

Okay, great Scott.

I really, honestly, I did a little applause there, I think. Thank you for, for saying that. And I think it also mirrors work as well. The work I've been looking at. Work. Work is based on, you know, the 1940s, post-World War II, World War setup of industrial things. And um, you know, now we're flexible working and blah, blah, blah, all sorts of things going on.

Work has also changed, yet we still have those same systems in place. So, if I may, I'd like to give you double applause for what you said.

Yeah, I think, I mean, it's a really good point and is a good extension of what you just said, that human AI symbiosis is going to become more and more important both in the world of education and learning, but also in the world of work. And actually, what is inevitably going to happen is as AI becomes more prevalent, everyone is saying this, they have been for a long time, more and more of what has been.

The previous tasks we do, both in education and in work that can be picked up by AI will be. And so actually without us approaching education from a position of thinking beyond the production or the engagement in those tasks, we actually are going to lose a significant amount of what has been positioned as the benefit of education because actually we aren't going to need to do those things anymore.

That's going to be done. We need the creativity and the innovation to take us on beyond that to the next set of challenges and the next set of discovery.

It's critical. If we don't, we'll have difficulties. I completely agree. Thank you.

What does that mean, though, for people? Right? Like everybody's got this, like, really front of mind as AI took our jobs. Right. Like everybody's having that conversation as we see layoffs happening and stuff like that. But like, I'm so excited thinking about what we can get up to if our quotas, our productivity quotas, are being, um, supplemented by the work that AI does.

And then like, as we're thinking now about, well, what, how does that shape education and is that going to make us more focused on the creative and, and um, creating art? Right. Like, which is some people might say the whole point of raison d'. Etre. Yeah.

The advent of AI is not the first big technology wave. The advent of the Internet was one. Even on a more macro or micro level, I should say the emergence of cloud-based solutions was one. It employs more people today than it ever did before.

Those waves of change. It's just that what people do in it or in tech businesses has changed a little bit, and that's probably how we need to think about this transformation. One of the things that we do in product when we are building products is think about jobs to be done.

Um, it's a framework that helps you understand how your software solution needs to solve a problem that somebody has. Because, uh, most people use software to do a job, basically. And so we think about the jobs that are needed, and then we build little solutions that say, that makes that job easier, that makes that job easier, or that makes that part of that job easier.

And what we have to do now is actually think about, well, how are jobs going to change? And what jobs does our software cater to today that may not either exist or exist in the same shape in the future? And then how can we help transition people from the jobs that they do today to the jobs that they're going to do tomorrow through the software solutions that we build.

And we do that at Moodle all the time. In a way, education is a space where that change might occur a little bit more slowly in terms of actual hard jobs to be done. Um, but Moodle also builds software for corporates, and the pace of evolution there is going to move a lot faster.

So, as we evaluate how to create Moodle and build Moodle for the future, we often think about that challenge in terms of jobs to be done. And right now, that's about what jobs will be there in the future and what those jobs will be about.

So it's a problem that's solvable. There are tools that we have to understand those things and the changing dynamics, and then you can build better solutions to help those changing dynamics and kind of guide people through those changes. Um, and that's something we can do at Moodle because we have a role to play in teaching people things, which is pretty exciting.

Really great conversation.

Okay, Scott, again, when you imagine, when you imagine walking the halls at Moodle moot this year, what kinds of conversations are you most excited to have?

Um, the stuff I enjoyed the most last year and that I'm the most looking forward to this year, hearing about the problems that people have diagnosed and are finding creative solutions to through education. And that's, that's especially when Moodle is part of the answer to that. But it's, it doesn't have to be.

It's about the way that we engage with the communities around us, whether in a formal education Setting, such as schools or higher education, or whether it is a learning challenge that happens in the workforce. Um, we're in a position where those two things are merging a lot.

The world of work and the learning development that's happening there is necessarily having to move beyond onboarding and regulatory compliance training and move to a place of much more serious talent development. And as that happens, that looks a lot more like the kind of education that happens in the higher education, continuing education spheres.

And so finding solutions to those challenges is exciting. Seeing those two, seeing the bridge between work and education actually being formed in a real way, which lifelong learning has been a buzzword ever since I started working in education. It feels to me like we're actually beginning to see that embedded in a much more real way now where it isn't just ticking a box that, you know something that is about the job that has to be carried out.

There's actually some learning and some talent development, skills development, and personal development taking place in that. And those are the things that I'm really looking forward to to hearing those stories and getting to celebrate the fact that people are finding solutions to really interesting challenges.

Uh, Marie, focusing in here, how does Moodle's product philosophy align with the idea that learning is a tool to build, not just to adapt to the future?

Basically, all of Moodle's product philosophies aligned to that thought process because it is created as a platform for people to engage in active learning. There is so many times where I'm sure that you've been, you know, doing some form of learning, mostly at work, probably these days, but where you've sat back and just watched a video or read a text or.

And it was just passive learning, and there was no active engagement. And 1. Moodle is created to counter that, to counter that experience, to bring people into a space where they could actively engage with their learning, but also actively engage with each other. Uh, that is the foundation of the product tenants that exist at Moodle.

This kind of concept where people learn best from each other and from watching each other do things, from watching each other fail at things, um, from engaging with each other on those topics. Everything in Moodle was about building, built to create that framework. So the product basis is these product tenants that are based on those concepts of bringing people the social construct that brings people together, uh, and does so in a digital context, so allows people to do so even if they are living 2,000 kilometres apart.

Um, they can still come together in a digital platform and learn from each other. Uh, so Moodle is Really, truly built to build the future together. Not just to be taught the future from somebody who feels quite remote or from a recorded video voice, which we all know is really not that fun at all.

Yeah, heard. Heard that for sure. You're reminding me of something that I love, uh, about Moodle that I don't. I feel like I don't see in the wilds very often. Right. Like, we. We love a good forum, we love a good workshop. We love where we come together as learners to learn from each other.

Like you're saying. But something that I feel like is underutilized in Moodle is the ability to fine tune permissions at the activity level so you can, like, set up activities so that your learners create the activity for their peers. Because there's like, no better way to get to learn something than to be tasked with teaching other people.

And I feel like that is not tapped into enough. So I just shout out to that feature in Moodle because, um, love that.

I don't think you ever know that you've learned something until you have to try and explain it to somebody else.

Yeah, yeah, cool. Shout out. Um, just had to get that plug in there. If you're listening at home, make one of those activities because learners love it. Learners love it. Okay, Marie, what's a feature or an idea that you've championed that you think people will help people feel more connected, included and empowered through Moodle?

Yeah I'm going to give you a really macro answer on this one. Um, which is our new um, A.I. subsystem. It's not a feature, it's a whole base of functionality. And Moodle has taken a really different approach to this kind of embedding AI into lmss, which you're seeing all of our competitors do in varying degrees.

And we have chosen to take an approach that's grounded on choice. You choose if you want to turn it on and off. You choose which AI system or backend or LLM you connect to. You as a teacher are going to gain increased ability to decide whether or not AI is used in your courses, um, or whether it is to create your course content or for your students to be able to do it.

Moodle has really based all of its AI strategy and its AI framework on the concept of choice and transparency. Um, and for me, that is such an important part of where we are today. You know, we were talking a little bit earlier when you were saying, you know, people are wondering what's going to happen.

My job, a lot of this comes from fear. And the reason people are scared is because they don't understand it. And there's no way you can understand something if it's not open and transparent and visible to, to the people who are using it. Um, so for me, it's one of the things I'm the most proud about that we've done in the last year.

Particularly when you contrast it with what we're seeing out in almost every other lms, which is basically saying, pay us a whole bunch more money and you get the AI tools. We're saying, you can have the AI tools, but the power to do that is in your hands. And so that kind of concept of empowerment is really materialized in how Moodle is tackling this new wave, uh, of AI, which is changing how everything is being done digitally.

If I can add to that, I think there's such an important piece of agency that exists in that as well, both institutional agency and individual agency. I think we have a responsibility as we are partnering with educational organizations or workforce, um, in whatever type of industry that is, that there is a high degree of agency in a period of time where there is so much uncertainty about what's coming.

And that extends from the kind of features you use and the approaches you take to use them, but also the extensions to the other companies that sit behind that. It is really important that we are not participating in some kind of technological entrapment, so that by virtue of making one choice in one system, you must use another set.

And, you know, it's all kinds of question data sovereignty and impact on environment and things like that. I just think. I think that agency is really important in what Marie highlighted.

Sorry, just to say, I just wanted to react to that as well because of the, um, particularly, you know, how you summarize it at the end about the empowerment that enables people to have, which is what you're talking about in agency, of course, Scott, but, uh, honestly, huge applause to you for the whole process and creative thinking that went behind it.

Thank you. I think one of the other that I didn't really mention is the concept of inclusivity. Moodle is used in places where Internet connectivity does not come by every day. Moodle is used in places where electricity does not come by every day. And we are in some worlds expecting those people to also be able to connect to AI tools and be able to afford them or even have the network connectivity to enable them.

How can Moodle play a role in driving this feeling of inclusivity for people who don't have access to that technology that we are, you know, uh, probably all of us on this call are starting to take for granted. One of our big roles is to put education in the hands of everybody who needs it.

And if you make a system that is dependent on high power Internet connectivity or expensive AI agents, you can't fulfill that mission. So the optionality, the agency to be able to turn it off and turn it on has to be at the core of our principles because we have to continue to serve those underserved communities who need our tools because it's the only one they can really use.

Because everybody else assumes you have power every day and the Internet every second of the day. That's not true for most of us on this planet. That is not true. And somebody has to look after those people. So that's the other part that I'm, um, pretty, pretty proud about.

Yeah, definitely.

I also feel like there's a growing. I've seen a lot of articles recently about the growing and valid concerns about the ecological, uh, impact of AI and the data centers that are required. And Moodle has always been very diy, very punk rock. And I don't care who knows it, I'm going to go on record right now.

And I feel like in those communities, people are putting ecological concerns at the forefront. And so the ability to say, nope, we don't want to engage with that, uh, it's music to my ears. Thank you so much, Marie, for making sure.

I do want to say, though, it doesn't mean that you can do some pretty amazing. You can't do some pretty amazing things with AI and Moodle. You can, uh, you always have the choice. And that's the bit that matters, for sure.

I want to talk about optimism. What gives each of you hope about the future of education?

Well, I'll go back a little bit to where I started with what I hope changes about the way we think about education. And that is the level of excitement and curiosity that is innate to kids when they start to learn. Despite the fact that there are systems that tend to strip that out.

That we've designed an educational process in many, many parts of the world that actually suppresses that. That is an innate desire. When you watch A kid of any age discover something new, they light up and they want more of it. They might not like school, they might absolutely hate taking exams.

I can't think of anybody who loves exam season, but there are, um. I've never met a child who doesn't love to learn. And that innate love is something that isn't going anywhere. Nothing in the technological sphere that's coming in AI is going to strip out that innate desire, that innate curiosity to discover and experience the magic that comes with surprise.

And that makes me optimistic every time I encounter it with someone.

I think that's a fantastic thing to say. And I would consider having worked both in higher education, in particular, and more recently in the corporate space around learning and various things. I do, we do come across all the time about the impact of artificial intelligence, for example, on jobs and learning and how it may indeed have a very negative effect.

And I'm not going to take away from. Because I'm um, I'm naturally a pessimistic person. So there we are. So have. Which. Which I know is that sharp contrast with many movers. So I. But what. And I think that's okay. I'm happy with being, being like that. Um, because what it enables me to do is to sort of dig around and be critical and, and I think academics tend to be a bit this way anyway.

But what gives me optimism Shalimar is I think that we've. Education has been as old as time. Higher education institutions 5,000 years that you know, recording and certainly in the UK I think was 10th century that the first universities were established. So a lot of change, including the industrial revolutions of the past and technology, technological adaptation and adoption of past.

And I sometimes call myself a modern Luddite in thinking that we need to question everything about all the technology which is good and just to feel that we are going in the right direction, being regular in that way. But what gives me optimism is the nature of uh, humanity on the whole.

You know, most, most people to, to echo what Scott says is that there is this innate wanting to learn, be curious, finding new ways, looking for shortcuts, which I think is one of the ways that um, we can really progress. Uh, and that's what's progressed as a species. So that's what gives me optimism that ultimately if we look back really long view, we've, we've done okay.

But it's not to say that we should not be wary of the things that are coming up around all the things that we just discussed. About society, sustainability, climate, jobs, peoples, inclusion, etc.

I think the best example of the exemplification of what gives me optimism for the future of education is actually my dad. He's 83 years old this year, um, and he comes over, grab his mobile phone and go, did you know you could do this with this, whatever it might be?

Like right now, he's all over, you know, the agents and all that kind of stuff. But five years ago was something else. And he's, you know, he's always two steps ahead. What I love about that, uh, is that today he has access to more pathways to continue to learn in his 80s than he ever would have in the past.

He had, uh, he can jump on his computer, he doesn't have to walk to the library or, you know, he can, he can jump to the, on his computer and learn new things every day. Um, and I think there are more pathways to learn in existence today than there, there have ever been.

And education can be defined in so many ways, but the moment you're learning, that's education, and we have more ways to do it than we've ever had before.

I love that your dad does that. And I like what it shows is that that innate desire to learn and discover persists. It starts out with that. You see that in the eyes of a child when they discover and learn something new. And what Marie is demonstrating is that at 83, that's still there.

Not only is it there, but the more we progress, the more opportunity there is to exercise that curiosity, to exercise that sense of discovery, and to accelerate the magic that comes with that. Learning is infinite. And that's really exciting.

Very much, yeah. That desire, the passion.

Yeah.

Quick show of hands. And I know this is not going to read too well on a podcast, but I'll narrate to them, um, what's happening. Um, quick show of hands. How many of us, our tech, um, interpreters for our curious elders who, uh. So, like, I routinely have this experience where, when I'm with my grandmother, who's in her 80s, when we see each other every week, she's got her little list of questions about how to do a thing on her phone or whatever, and we have to go through that, so does anybody.

Is that a common experience for us?

Yeah, but I also have that from younger people as well. Shalimar. This because we do have the idea of digital natives, uh, which can be true, but often people are wary of engaging or perhaps unsure because their, their peers are maybe way ahead. So there, there are. There are perhaps less, but still there, that, um, being that kind of 10.

Tech enabler for different generations as um.

Well, I mean, that's definitely true. But I will say I have crossed over to being the old person in my house. I have 15, 21, and 22-year-olds living in my house, and I am no longer allowed to hold the Apple TV remote.

They cannot tolerate it being in my hand. I just am too slow and too inept with it. So that gives you a sense of sort of where, where I progress.

They are not great with you.

Yeah, it's, it's funny because you know that whole like digital natives, you know, a few years ago everybody was talking about it, I feel like. But now with the advent of like Chromebooks and iPads, I feel like um, there's like a new kind of like barrier. Right. Like when I was growing up in the 90s and the early 2000s, everything, like we had access to the whole computer and now it feels like um, because the environments have become simplified in a lot of ways that we've lost that ability to like pop the hood and get into the, to the meat of the computer.

And so I feel like the young people that I have occasion to uh, interact with more have lost some of the like computer literacy that informs kind of the explorations that they do in, in the world. So I don't know if that's just my experience, but it's like a weird um, hills and valleys, peaks and valleys of like um, access and like exploration into kind of the deeper guts of computer culture and all that stuff.

So, what tip can you give to somebody who might be struggling with a costume idea for the party at the Moot?

First of all, well, I am that person, so I'd appreciate any of the kind of like I'm the person that is struggling.

So number number one, don't take yourself too seriously and don't take the party too seriously. So last year was my first MoodleMoot. It was my first MoodleMoot party. It is, um, it was so much fun. I could not have guessed what it was going to be like trying to envision it ahead of time.

Um, and it is so relaxed and such an engaging inclusive time. Let all of the pressure and stress just bleed away and take a deep breath before you engage in trying to make a choice.

Absolutely.

In case you haven't heard, the theme of the party is Once upon Tomorrow, which um, ah, at one time gives us the freedom to explore legends and myths of the past and maybe envision how they might take a new form in the future or something. Future legend that might be out there.

Why Been to a costume party. Ah, probably when I was seven. But.

And even that was probably. Actually I do remember it was something to do with the queen and it was a street party. So, um. Yeah, my parents kind of dressed me in something which didn't work. It was probably. Yeah. So Scott's just said, chill out, enjoy it. I'm like already terrified.

Oh my gosh. Okay, so that was really bad advice. Then.

I could give you my advice, which just to wear comfortable shoes. Because even if you do not believe that you are a person who dances in public, which is me, I don't do that. For some reason at the moodle mood I do. I don't know what happens to me.

Something happened like, um, so wear comfortable shoes is my tip.

And. And in Edinburgh, where I worked actually for five years. So it would be. So there's the. Hopefully, bagpipes and all the rest are going on. Who knows? That's what I'm.

You're hoping for bagpipes.

I'm.

I'm otherwise, uh, yeah. That I could come as that maybe as a bag full of people who.

Have ever said that.

It's a great idea. A great costume idea is bagpipes of legend and myth.

Yes. Love it.

Um, okay, great. Yeah, those are great tips for someone who might be struggling with a costume idea. Shoes is good and I also think it might be pretty cool. Whereas last year's was. It was hot. It was hot last year. This year it's probably going to be nice and cool.

So don't be freezing. General advice to people coming up with costume ideas. Get weird with it. You know, what are the break. Really push the boundaries of what might be considered once upon tomorrow. That's where I find the most enjoyment, is people who really think outside the box. I'd like us all to imagine it's 2030, which is not as far off as I would like it to be around the corner.

Yeah.

Okay. Calm down, Scott. Calm down. I can't hear that too hard right now.

It's gonna give me anxiety. It used to be like far away, like the stuff of sci-fi movies. And then we go, what is here? Oh, that's crazy.

Okay. All right. Uh, my anxiety is building. Okay. We're imagining it's 2030. We're gonna run into somebody who attended this year's Moot. What do you hope they say changed for them because they were at the Moot?

My costume is gonna haunt them. Still love that. Love that.

Well, I kind of Hope I'm still doing what I'm doing and working at Moodle and creating amazing products by 2030. So I kind of hope I get to talk to people at my job, like, daily and going, do you remember that one in Edinburgh? Like, did you remember how we talked about this?

Uh, so I kind of hope it changes my day to day work life for the next, um, many years. And I, and I kind of hope it does that for our attendees too, because, you know, middle is so much part of what they do for work, and there's such a different definition about work these days.

I kind of feel like work is life, and I'm not talking about work. Life, balance. I think that's.

No, no, no, I agree.

I think that's the wrong way to think about it. But so hopefully a lot of our attendees are still in the world and kind of go, oh, they might be meeting somebody at work. And I remember meeting you at the Mood or, um, telling each other funny stories, working from new HQ about what might have happened in Edinburgh.

So that's how I like to think about it.

I really hope that if I run into that person in 2030, what they say is, when I was there in Edinburgh, I realized for the first time it really landed that despite all of the uncertainty, I personally had a role to play in what education would look like for the future.

And that I, ah, could choose to and was being invited to be part of that, and that all of the choices I've made since then have been worth it.

Oh, wow.

Okay. I think, Naeema, I think we need to change our answers because Scott's was more way too good.

Oh, yeah, that was.

Yeah. Well, I, I still think they'll be haunted by my, um.

By your costume.

Yes. But I, I, it might be a.

Costume that led them to that decision. I thought, if somebody's gonna look like that, I have to step in and.

Do something and stop this. They want to go back in time and stop me making this costume. Um, the, the thing I, I've been thinking since I've been invited in. Thank you so much as, well. What an honor is, is just, I'm just at the beginning of, um, learning and immersing myself in Moodle and Moodle culture, and it's, it's very different, as you'll know, because you're, you're, you're in it, and the people coming in it will feel that sense of connection and bond and striving and optimism and growth and all these things about enabling the world to change for the better I really, really feeling that already.

So I would say that one, uh, of the things I would hope that they do is feel, feel really grounded in their, in that connection. And I would actually say there's something about that we're talking a lot about at the moment in this work that we're looking at with the impact of AI is purpose.

I know we use it a lot already in industry and you know, all that kind of strategies, but the purpose of who we are and it can be, and I'm going to say this with kindness, Moodle people, I say this with kindness, is that when we're in a group of people who are like minded and think, think so positively that sometimes we can get caught in that and then there's this group of people outside who don't perhaps think in, in the same way.

And then when we get confronted that if we talk about inclusion, as you talked about Marie so eloquently about this ability, you know, to think about the world where this is not the norm, to do that means that we, it's sticking to purpose. Especially when we get perhaps challenges with what we're getting.

And you go back to the purpose and it's so strong in mood or so strong. I'm just seeing that as an outsider coming, keeping that four years, three years from now is going to be, um, well, you know, keeping your focus, our focus on what our purposes would be.

Wide one.

So good. So good. Thank you.

And I'm confident, honestly, because Marie and I have been around and in the Moodle community for ages. I don't want to actually give you a year because I, that's too dumb. Um, it's too long. But we have sustained that for a long time and so I have every reason to believe that, yeah, we'll continue, um, on that path.

So amazing. Couldn't agree more. Love these Moodle Community people and uh, well, thank you all three of you and I cannot wait to see you in person. I'm so excited. Naeema, let's connect because I've got ideas. I can be a sounding board. I love costume.

Great.

Yeah, I don't want you to have anxiety about this. We can spitball some ideas together.

Fantastic.

Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you all, uh, for agree, you know, for meeting me here, for being on the podcast. And I think I speak for a lot of people when I say that I cannot wait to see you in Edinburgh.

Me too.

We'll see you all there.

To explore how learning shapes our future, join us in Edinburgh this September for MoodleMoot Global 2025!