<silence> Hello and welcome to the Moodle Podcast.

Hi everyone. Today we're thrilled to bring you a conversation between Sonia tti and Fernando Venezuela from the Ed latam Alliance at MoodleMoot Global, where they discuss the importance of developing skills for navigating the age of augmented intelligence and human AI collaboration. Let's get started.

Fernando, hello.

I am very happy to be here. So thank you so much.

Thank you very much for being here. Is this your first moot with Moodle?

No, actually, well, globally it is . I have been in one or two in , in Latin America. I went to one in Peru, one in Colombia . So yeah, but the first global

Oh , amazing, amazing, amazing. Very, very good to hear. And your presentation was really inspirational and very like, well taken from the audience. I would like to start with a question , uh, to everyone who doesn't know, obviously , uh, what you talked about is like, what is augmented intelligence?

So I feel first that we have a very important responsibility today in education. We are the generation that is supposed to broach what we used to call intelligence, which was mainly a good grade with good behavior and a good degree from a good institution into a completely different set of intelligences that become cognitive, social, emotional, but also that make us more human. And that we have different mindsets, different tools, and different skills. So I think it's a , it's a generational opportunity for us to rethink education.

Amazing. And you actually lead me to the next question that you mentioned that AI is an opportunity and we need to take it as an opportunity rather than threat . How should we shift our mindset to look at that way?

Yeah, I really get frustrated when I hear that people are not using artificial intelligence because it makes mistakes or it has biases or whatever. And I think basically it has the same mistakes and the same biases that we have as, as a human generation. So what I do , do believe is that we need to experiment, but also we need to filter, educate, train, and get artificial intelligence to the point where we can become better humans. So the idea is that today we need to rethink if whatever energy and activity we are putting, is this the best way for us to become more human or can we let artificial intelligence and tools provide what they do best so we can really focus into our humanity? So I think this is , uh, something that is not one formula fits all , but I think we need different layers of training and relating with artificial intelligence, but with the best reason for us to become better humans and to serve everyone in the system.

Interesting. Very interesting. And you mentioned biases and that was actually my next question is like what are the biases we are exposed to when we work with ai? Do we need to like really be concerned about them? What is your thoughts?

Yeah, I think when you are using AI in education, you really are dealing with mostly young students, mostly kids. So you do need to be conscious, but not to block it or not to use it, but actually to learn from it and to filter mm-hmm <affirmative> . And to question. So I think it's always a design issue. You need to design experiences that allow you and your students to question what is coming out of this artificial intelligence and also how do you relate with that in a way that you avoid because this is using data from the past. So what we need to do is build better data for the future. So what would be that better data for the future that does not have the biases? So if you find a mistake from artificial intelligence, a bias, then you need to refine it and also filter it. So you need to experiment in order for you to know how to balance that.

Yeah, absolutely. I agree with you. I would like you to summarize for us, how would AI change education in the coming years?

So in my

Some main points,

Yeah . Mm-hmm <affirmative> . In my proposal, I think this is why what I call augmented intelligence in our view, you have a teacher that is very good, but that teacher is not a hundred percent good for a hundred percent of the students or in a hundred percent of the activities and tasks. So maybe he's very good or she's very good at explaining, but not good at, at providing feedback or not good at providing feedback for a profile of students. Now, if you design this correctly, you can make a teacher be good at every single task for every single student. But you need to map that. And that's what I call the augmented , uh, augmented intelligence is, you know, let's say a teacher is not good at providing feedback. She should rely on these type of tools to improve her feedback, but also the feedback is not for an average student. So what is coming from the other end is the feedback may not be well received for the student . So now you need to make sure that this student is able to get the best from this feedback. And all of this is basically aligning and augmenting that learning experience in a way that every teacher and every student can aim at a better performance.

This sounds like a perfect education in my view, like improving it a lot, but , uh, when we'll get there, we are not sure, but obviously with time, I guess, do you think that's close or maybe in the next couple of years or 10 years? So

I think the path already started. 'cause I , I am amazed we , we built a couple of artificial intelligence tools already that we are working with universities and that is happening. We are helping teachers explain better design, better provide better feedback, and we are helping students to do that. So I see that and that's why I am so optimistic about it because I am seeing that happening today with the tools that we have, which is only the beginning. So if we map this massively, I would expect that we can really aim for a better education.

Absolutely. Absolutely. I agree with you. And going back to the student side , uh, critical thinking and problem solving are key skills in this area, right? In the , in the new era of ai. Can you give some practical examples of how these skills can play , um, when working alongside with ai?

Yes. I think most of that has to do with breaking a little bit of the learning that is individual Yeah . To a more collaborative learning. So you design experiences that are supposed to solve problems, but a problem is never related to one subject, is never related to one solution, and that solution would never work for all contexts. So what you need to do is build for complex problem solving , which requires more collaboration, more different and diverse collaboration. And also think that the solutions that you're building and the , the solutions that you're proposing only work on a specific set of context. So then you need to make sure that now that it works for one context, what would you do to make it work for different contexts, different students, different countries, different economical or environmental solutions . So I think now we have a possibility of opening up these type of problem solving capabilities and collaboration.

Right. Okay. And my next question is a little bit more how to say maybe scary for some people, but uh , still you mentioned something about artificial intelligence already surpassed human intelligence and it's on the way to do it. Like big time in the future, in the near future. Um, what would that mean for humanity? Can you tell us more about

It? Well, you have two views, right? Yeah . You have the optimistic and the pessimistic, the scary view. Absolutely. What I would say is that we are a generation that can build better humans. If we focus at what really means, I mean, there's gonna be an abundance of knowledge and the knowledge that we used to call intelligence is not really the right intelligence. The right intelligence has to do with how we relate to each other, how we collaborate with each other, and that there is no artificial intelligence or robot that can do that for humans. So I think the idea is that we need to aim for a better human that collaborates, communicates, empathizes, and understands people in a way that we haven't been able to do it.

Brilliant. Brilliant. And one of the main messages of your presentation was about continuous learning, right? And I would like to ask you, how can individuals and organizations prioritize ongoing , uh, learning to stay relevant?

Yeah, so this idea of the portfolio of learning experiences is something that we began working with the financial community where you have a portfolio of assets mm-hmm <affirmative> . And you have a portfolio of learning, but that portfolio can appreciate or depreciate. So you may have an experience that you learn in a course or in a trip or whatever, but that may be not relevant in the future. So you need to do something to make sure that it doesn't depreciate. So this idea is learning does not stop. You are never ending your learning, you are never graduating from learning. You're probably in a stop to your next stage and then your next stage. So you always need to build new mindsets. You always need to build new capabilities. You always need to make sure that the skills that you learn are a year ago are still relevant tomorrow and the day after tomorrow. So I think this is the right view. We should not give a diploma at the end of a course. We should give many diplomas of the assets of learning that you acquire during your trajectory. But these learning assets are not forever. Your title, your diploma is not forever. It may only last until the next wave of innovation comes and then you have to rebuild it.

Yes. And um, now talking to you, I would like to make the connection also to the keynote of Muro founder Martin Dougiamas. Uh, something that I remember very clearly from yesterday is one of the teachers asked Martin, if AI is going to replace educators and talking about that, I would like to ask you the same question about what you think and what are these activities that would remain really human.

Yeah. I think the abilities that are really human are the way we tell stories, the way we empathize with other humans. Yeah . The way we collaborate. So I , I don't think artificial, I , I have seen a few examples of schools that are replacing teachers with artificial intelligence and the experience is lost. You get a lot of knowledge, but you don't get the right connection. Maybe today you get teachers that believe that they need to transfer knowledge and that the students are a passive element of their knowledge. Those teachers are in danger because the student, the student needs to become an active protagonist of the future. And the teacher is not about sending knowledge or transferring knowledge, it's about accompanying every student in their emotions in the support, making sure they have success. So today they, they do teaching for the average student. They assess students with the , the , the same tool at the same time. And, and that is not the way future of learning should happen. So I think we need different type of teachers, but we would always need teachers that make us human

Talking about teachers. Let's also touch on the topic of course design because you talked about course design also during the presentation. What would be the course design of the future? You shared some framework with us. Can you please elaborate? Yeah.

So , so the framework that we developed at at Atla had to do exactly this. The student is a protagonist, it's not a passive recipient of learning. And that is the key. It's an active learning, it's learning that is connected, but also that active learning has to do with being able to imagine futures that are not possible today or may be possible today. Imagine how the students would need to develop skills and tools to be able to succeed. And also we need to design these experiences, active experiences where you need to collaborate with people that think differently, not collaborate from people that are in the same faculty in the same course are in the same age. So you need to design for this type of active learning that is also very diverse and you need to make an element of gaming an element of enjoyment in this collaboration. And finally, you can do all of this for the digital era. You don't need to do this only with bringing technology to the classroom, with building the digital capability. So I think it's a combination of active learning, emotional learning, gaming, future design, and that blend allows for a different design of courses.

Interesting. So , um, basically we're coming to an end. I have just one, two more questions for you. Uh, one of them is about AI agents at , this is really hot topic in AI as well. And you already mentioned that you're working on some projects like that, right. Uh , what is your perspective? Would you advise educational institutions and obviously educators to start like building their own AI agents? Is that a necessity? Is that more like , uh, something that will help them in their work? What do you think? Yeah,

I, I think every institution is going to have to retain the identity, the philo , the philosophy and the values of that institution. Yeah . So there is not an agent that would do everything for every institution. So I think every institution would need to have their own identity communicating with other agents from other institutions and even from the open agents . So I think it's more of a curation, but you need to really select where do you need to build. So what we're doing today is that we're working on these different layers and institution is going to have their own artificial intelligence that connects with the upper layer that is a little bit more open and then it connects downwards to the teacher that needs an agent to be supportive. So I think it's different layers of that.

Right. Okay. And last but not least, if you need to leave educators with one message for the future of education with ai, what would that be?

So I think we need to learn it all. We need to experiment a lot. We need not to be scared about artificial intelligence, but we need to also develop an experience of learning that never ends. We need to make sure that our students fall in love with learning curiosity and also experimentation with people that are different. So I think those are the keys for, for the future of learning.

Thank you, Fernando. It was pleasure meeting you. Thank you so much. Keep inspiring and enjoy the conference. Thank you. Thank you.