Hello and welcome to the Moodle Podcast.

Hello everyone. Thank you for joining us today on the Moodle podcast. I'm already community engagement lead here at Moodle. Today I have the pleasure to welcome Rob Loy from Dublin City University with us. Rob has worked at Dublin City University or D C U for nearly four years, and has launched the brilliant webinar series Moodle, in which members of the community present good practice and innovative ideas for learning, teaching, and assessment online. We'll talk about today, of course, but also about Rob's view on mood and on the future of online education. Good morning, Rob. Can you introduce yourself perhaps and give me a summary of your model background and your work at D C U?

Yes, of course. Ari, thank you so much for having me here today with you. It's a, it's a pleasure to see you and talk to you as always. So thank you for that lovely introduction. I am Rob and I am a learning technologist at Dublin City University and D C U is a, a, a young dynamic university based in the, the capital of Ireland, Dublin, uh, based in the, the north part of the city across three campuses. And we have, we offer a very wide variety of, of programs for our students. And a lot of our stu a lot of our programs are very much linked to, uh, industry and professions and so on, as we try to prepare our students to go out and, and make a difference in the world. And my role as an learning technologist really is to support our teaching staff, to develop their teaching excellence and to innovate in their teaching, learning and assessment practices. And to do so with the pedagogically appropriate integration of various different learning technologies primary among them obviously being Moodle.

That's wonderful. Thank you. I do hope I did the, a suitable introduction earlier. Can you tell us more about how it came about and maybe what's next in a series without too many spoilers?

Yes, of course, of course. So, as you said, Moodle Munch is a, a, a a community webinar series that's been running for almost three years now. When I last checked the, the registration list, we had over 600 members signed up from places like Ireland, obviously the uk, some other European countries, Germany, Poland, Italy, and some members from the United States and Canada as well. So a very, you know, growing, growing global community, which is, which is lovely to see. And it came about really, I think partially due to my own experience in growing and learning about Moodle because there's such a wonderful community behind Moodle, I find that as often the best way to, to, to learn about how to use the platform. And it's how I learned how to use mood Moodle myself, browsing the forums, the documentation, the Moodle docs, you know, going to webinars, conferences, presentations, how we all learn about, about developing our, our, our mood skills because there's so much rich knowledge out there. And I kind of saw, you know, we have great mood mots that run, you know, very regularly, and we an excellent Moodle mot in Ireland in the UK for example, which of course, people in, in, in, in, in this region would, would attend quite regularly, as I mentioned, this fantastic resources online for people to, uh, people to engage with. But I kind of saw a gap in, in, in that sort of rich ecology of, of learning possibilities that, you know, something like a webinar series, something more frequent than, than a conference, but perhaps less intense, something that people could kind of dip in and out of something that could share more up to date and, and emerging knowledge and practice with, with Moodle and, and, and related technologies. Um, so I thought, well, let's have a go and let's try and fill this gap here and see does it meet educators needs? Does it help them to share and connect with one another and learn about what, what one another is doing and share insights and, and support and encourage each other with Moodle. And it seems that a gap was fulfilled. Moodle launch has, has, has grown steadily, uh, over the last three years. I've promoted it through various different networks and mailing lists in, in Ireland, in the UK and further afield and seems to keep growing and growing. So perhaps, you know, um, I I I take that as a sign that, you know, people are filling the gap in this, in this knowledge and, and something like<inaudible> is is there to help them do that.

Yes, absolutely. I have used it as a major resource for myself to learn more about different practices, but, but also about different users, you know, it's, it's really, really nice to see the variety are there. And obviously we've got a new series that has just started this month, so that's fantastic. But looking back, do you have a favorite mood Munch personally, and if so, what was it about and how does it stand out for you?

That that is a really difficult question. A<laugh> all the Munch is, all the mood Munch is, are brilliant. Um, I think what's interesting about Oodle Munch is that people come to it with, with different levels of, of interest per se, in in any particular topic. So the way, the way I kind of curate the topics is I, I use the, the European framework for the digital competence of educators, the digital company PDU framework to kind of theme, uh, the particular presentations at the, at the Moodle Munch webinars. And I suppose the, the reason for doing that is to kind of provide a roadmap for the attendees to kind of see, okay, well this presentation is linking to that competence. So if I'm attending this, I have an opportunity to maybe learn and reflect on that particular competence in that particular area. And I sort of, it, it sort of contextualizes the learning in, in, in something, in something wider. So throughout the mood launches, I try and kind of hit as many of the different areas of digital company DU framework as as possible. Um, and I do know that kind of generally whenever I've curated a, a webinar around the topic of accessibility or universal design for learning or kind of empowering learners, including learners, those ones always seem to resonate very well with the Moodle Munch community members. A lot of them seem very passionate about accessibility and, and universal design. And when these particular webinars take place, there's, there's usually very good attendance, very good engagement, because again, you know, being a, a community series being there to support and encourage one another, the interaction, the collaboration, the discussion during Moodle, one's webinars really is the high point of them. And whenever we kind of have something around accessibility and, and universal design, I just notice there's just a little bit extra, there's a little bit more engagement and, and, and passion, although that is to say in, in all of our movement webinars, there's lots of excellent discussion and, and, and lots of great sharing and insights, uh, because everyone is so passionate about, about mood and about good quality education.

Yeah, absolutely. I found them all very useful as well. But I really like the link with the d d com framework, like the MEC does, um, mood Academy, uh, because that's a great way of, of building on the learning and, and identifying where we need to grow as, uh, professionals. So that's really useful. A little bit of a different idea. And I, moving away from the mood, I wanna talk about more your opinions on things. We know that obviously education technology is about more the people than the tools as a webinar series exemplifies as well, but there are so many ways to use mood. So I'd like a bit of an insight from you as to what's your favorite example of using maybe a Moodle tool or some ways, some aspects of Moodle and maybe for an unexpected purpose. So mm-hmm.<affirmative>, something a little bit different out there.

Yeah, I have to say, I am a big, big fan of the database activity. I love the database activity. I think it is a piece of magic in, in Moodle. I think it's a shame more people don't know about it and, and don't, and don't use it because I think when you p apply your imagination to the database activity, you can create almost any kind of learning activity you want. It is, is wonderful. There is a learning curve, obviously with the, with the database activity. Although I do know in, in mood 4.1, I believe it, it's going to be a little, it could be a little bit easier to, to settle the database.

Yeah, we're using the new version on model the org. It's been a lot easier to set up.

Good, good, good. So I hope more people use the database activity as a, as a result, I've used it in, in, in dcu in, in lots of different ways. I, I've configured it one time to enable peer review between pairs of, of students on, on a course. And of course, peer review is a, a really powerful form of, of learning, uh, where students, uh, uh, reviewing one another's, uh, work and, and giving feedback and therefore, you know, self-assessing their, their own work against their peer and making judgements and so on and mean. I've used configured a database activity to support that. I know our, um, alumni office in dcu, they run an excellent mentoring program between DCU alumni and current students. And actually at a, at a forthcoming munch webinar, they're going to speak about how they use the database activity to match up the, uh, alumni and the current students so that they can find the best mentor, can find the best mentee and the best mentee can find the best mentor. And the database activity is, is fantastic for that cause of the, the flexibility in searching and, and so on and so forth. And then I've seen lots of other people do excellent stuff with the database activity as well. I think many of us might be familiar with Sarah Ashley from the US who has done, uh, and, and showcases some wonderful examples of using, uh, database activity to create kind of like a web form or a log or, you know, a diary entry and, and things like that. And if we think about all of those things, you know, logging, reporting, reflective diaries, things like these are all really useful active learning strategies for our students to kind of apply their knowledge to reflect, to self-assess, et cetera. Really, really powerful methods of learning. And the database activity is such a versatile tool that can support all of that, that I really encourage people don't be afraid of the database activity. It is a, it is your best friend once you get to know it and they can unlock so much potential for you and your learners. So yeah, absolutely database, database number one.

Yeah. And they can experiment and then come and talk about it on the middle<laugh>. Yes, exactly. Uh, yeah, I'm looking forward to hearing that one about the matching the, uh, mentor and mentee thing. That sounds really interesting. I definitely have to attend this. You cover so much, you know, both in your, obviously the, the, the series, but also in your personal work in terms of range of topics. Uh, it's so broad, it's actually fascinating. I do would like to hear more about your own view on maybe where online education and education technology is heading in the future. So if you had a crystal ball<laugh> bit of a magic question, what would you foresee? What would be an unexpected or surprising change in education that you foresee?

That's a really interesting question. I don't have a crystal ball. If I, if, if I did, I'd be able to foresee the lot numbers and I'd be a very rich man. I think the pandemic obviously threw education into a tailspin overnight. And, and we all had to scramble and, and, and turn to technology to help keep us going. And particularly those early days in the pandemic and those early days in the lockdown were, were obviously terrifying and, and and frightening for everyone across the world. Those who were falling ill, those who in our medical, um, professions who, who were working so hard, those who lost loved ones, et cetera. And it was obviously very, very difficult in in education as well. Very stressful. Our educators were, were trying to do their best and, uh, juggle their own, uh, personal commitments. Whil. I was also trying to do the best for the students. And then our students were obviously kind of stressed and so on, but particularly those early days of the, of the lockdown, there was a fantastic solidarity I found in the education community. Uh, and particularly those of us working in learning technology, working in supporting online, uh, and digital learning and so on. I, I thought there was a great solidarity and a great coming together to support one another to keep going. And I think that really showed me in a very heartwarming way of, although it was a very difficult time in the world, showed me in a very heartwarming way how we came together to support one another and do what's best for our, for our students. And I, since then, obviously a lot of time has elapsed. It's been almost three years since those early days of, of lockdown and so on. The world is moving on a little bit and I think forgetting some of the, a possibilities that were unlocked around, um, online and digital education. But I think more so I think we're moving on a bit and, and we're, we're losing a little bit of the focus on people and doing what's best for our learners and for ourselves. And there's a lot of rhetoric at the moment about, you know, returning to pen and paper, closed book times, written examinations. You know, there's a lot of talk about returning back to large in-person transmission based, uh, lectures. You know, there's, there's a move away from using, uh, Moodle and, and, and other learning tools for supporting ongoing asynchronous, um, engagement. I think it's a shame, it will be a shame if we, if we lose some of those insights and some of those really good practices that evolved during the, during the lockdowns because those really good practices I felt were born outta a desire to do what was good for our learners and keep our learners at heart and de design and develop good learning experiences and, and, and learning activities and so on that benefits them. So I really hope that we keep that as our kind of north star over the next few years, that, that we would always be guided not by what the timetable tells us, not by what the institution tells us, not by what classrooms we have available or, you know, the, the rules say we have to have 12 lectures and that's it. You know, I really hope that we keep people in our hearts and minds going forward, keep students as our focus going forward. And from that, let us decide what are the best learning activities, what are the best tools to pull together and to build together so that we can ensure our learners have the best learning experience that they can have in the future.

Yeah, I absolutely agree. The last thing you want is regression, because we know, we've experienced how technology can support that, those achievements. And in some circumstances, you know, it's, it's different degrees, different application, but it's not having the, the knowledge or the expertise around the institution through learning technologists, for example, of being able to get that choice of working out what's the best activity and what's the best, uh, technology to match the activity that we're trying to support the students with. So absolutely correct. And the same for assessment, you know, just, it should be about learning achievements over the regulations in many aspects. You know, regulations are obviously here for a good reason, but we need to move with the times as well and understand how people show they've learned, you know? Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. So I agree absolutely with you. It's, I do hope as well for the future. That's where we're heading and we are working more together as a community, less than a kind of almost student, as a consumer kind of model, which is

Exactly

Not where we wanna head<laugh>.

Yeah, yeah, precisely. And I do think, you know, it's, it's important as well, I think to, to, to stress that, you know, the term online education, the term digital education, technology, enhanced learning, et cetera, all of these things mean different things to different people. And you know, if I was to say online learning to somebody, they might get an image in their mind of, you know, someone hunched over a computer just watching videos and, and, and reading PDFs on screening, speaking, you know, but, but if I was to say online learning to someone else, they may think about all, you know, wonderful opportunities for video conferencing and connection and collaboration and, you know, building things online and, you know, and blocking and applying creativity and so on. So I think it's important to, you know, if we are having these ongoing discussions, is that we sort of tease out people's conceptions of, of online and, and digital learning and, and let them know that it's such a, it's such a broad spectrum and, and, and, and you can, you can do almost anything within online and, and digital learning to suit you, to suit your context, to suit your discipline, to suit your students. So it's, it's not a case that<inaudible> learning can only be one model or can only be one, one menu of things for you and your learners. It's a, it's something you can mix and match and, and, and create the best seat you and your learners. And I think that's what's what's important is it's figuring out what is what is best for you and your learners and talking with the experts in your institution, in your, in your organization, et cetera, talking to your learning technologist or your academic developer or your digital advisor, whoever you might have, have those conversations and, and work out what best suits you and your students.

I agree, absolutely. What's one question you wish I'd asked you today and how would you have answered

It? Oh, I wish you would've asked me, uh, about the state of play of learning analytics in education. I wish you would've asked me that.

I'm really interested actually. So go<laugh>,

I wish you would've asked me that question because it's, it's an area of great interest to me because I'm, I'm doing a, a doctorate in education, um, at the moment, and I'm focusing on the area of learning analytics and critical data literacy, which is a kind of a, a set of skills that, that we can develop that goes beyond I suppose, being able to, uh, work with data and combine data and visualize data towards a kind of a greater critical awareness of the role of data in our society and, and, and, and how data, you know, is used, uh, by various different actors in, in, in, in our societies. So because it's, it's, it's my doctoral topic, it's, it's of course always bubbling there in the, in, in, in the brain. I do think learning analytics is, is, is a very, very interesting field and obviously has a lot of potential to enhance the learning experience by drawing on, on what data we have. And I can see, i, I know the field of learning analytics is, is at various states of maturity in, in, in different jurisdictions. And, and there are some, some very universities who really invested heavily in learning analytics, both in terms of infrastructure, but more importantly in terms of expertise and, and, and staff and support and so on for learning analytics. Uh, and, and, and a lot of institutions are, are using that information to make informed decisions or contribute to informed decision making around, uh, student journey and student learning experience and so on. I do think, again, you know, again, whipping out my, my crystal ball, uh, looking into the future, I do think learning analytics is, is probably a field that's going to, that's going to continue to grow over the next few years. And I do think that people who are interested in institutions who are interested in in learning analytics should take a student focused to student-centered approach to it and involve students in the creation of learning analytics. Policies involve students in the creation of learning analytics, dashboards and reports, ask students for their consent and their ongoing consent around, um, data capture and, and decision making being made around their, around their data. And really treat learning analytics as, as an opportunity for everybody to come together and to, to use this information to, you know, partially inform decisions, um, going forward. Cause I think otherwise, if, if you don't involve people, and in particular, if you don't bring students to the table in learning analytics, I think you run the risk of alienating them. I think you run the risk of creating a sense of learning analytics as monitoring or surveillance, uh, rather than a tool that maybe surfaces up some information that can provide a, a catalyst for discussion around decisions. So I could keep going, but I'll, I'll, I'll stop there early because I don't want, I don't

Want interview on your research. I guess I'm really interested, uh, learning analytics and adaptive learning, which moves on from that. So as an individual level, you talked about it as an institutional level making decision on the learning design and learning experience, which I think is a first step, but then is how do we make it so we empower the students to adapt their learning based on that data? And as you, you're completely right, you have to be able to, to look at the data and, and have that learn how to read that data basically and analyze it. And that's something that will, you know, that takes a while. And that, that as institutions, we need to grow into it. Uh, I'm, I'm fascinated by it. I'd love to follow your research as well. How can our listeners find you online and maybe follow you and follow your research?

Yeah, definitely. You can get me at Twitter, uh, lony Rob, or you can drop me an email. Just Rob lony dcu and that's lony, L O W N E

Y. Brilliant. Thank you so much. Thanks for joining me today, Rob. Like I said earlier, I've always enjoyed the, the Mood Much series and it's really been great to, um, learn more about it today. For our listeners, if you'd like to learn more about topics like this, we encourage you to listen to the Moodle podcast, but also join the Moodle open source community and again, involved at mood org. Also, go and check the mood org Evans the calendar where you'll be finding Evans from the Moodle there, and you have links to sign up, I think what's coming up. And finally, of course, as Rob just said, you can connect with Rob on Twitter or by email. Um, so it's goodbye from me and see you soon.

Bye Ari. Thanks for the chance to chat today. Great, as always.